BIBLE SKEPTICS IDENTIFIED
ACADEMICS, THEOLOGIANS, SCIENTISTS

If precise quotes, sources of information etc; are not provided here please
request them by emailing A.D. Communications. NOTE: Some dialogues
are a combination of narration, edited interviewee opinion and filmed scenes.


Lloyd Bailey
(Professor of Religion, Mount Olive College).
(Link)


Mr. Bailey, identified as a Bible Scholar, states that "there is no boat there (on Ararat) and there never has been." How can a Bible Scholar deny the very thing he claims to be? Bailey denies that Noah's Ark was built with a smelting method. According to Bailey, the Hittites, around 1500 B.C.E. first started smelting Iron 1,000 years after (loose approx.) supposedly Noah's Flood occurred (2500 B.C.E.).

My Comments: Russian archaeologists discovered Iron smelting furnaces in 1972 that date to 2500 B.C.E. (E.M. Blaiklock, p. 313). Bailey is caught with his own words in that he denies the idea that 1000 years prior to 1500 BCE (Bailey said 1,000 yrs in the interview) there was iron smelting. What is most interesting is that the furnaces were discovered near Ararat where the Ark landed. Hee hee!! The Lord has a great sense of humor! When did Noah's Flood occur? I believe the flood occurred pre-Hasssuna (5500 B.C.E.) and that tablets contained the story of the Flood from this general period. Others believe the flood occurred around 4100 B.C. (Ubaid period) or 2600 B.C.E. > the era of King Gilgamesh. I reject this belief.

Sources: The Search for Noah's Ark on The History Channel.

Further Study: The New Int'l Dictionary of Biblical Archaeology by E.M. Blaiklock. www.noahsarksearch.com.

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C. (Charles) Lynn Batten
(University of California)
(Link)


"I think many people nowadays find their faith challenged and rather than look at the nature of faith, what they try to do is stretch the Bible to make it factual in the most fundamentalist sense of the word..."

"If you read it carefully, you will see that there is one version that says that the animals are taken aboard the ark two by two another version that says they are brought on the ark two by two if they are unclean and seven by seven if they are clean. This suggests you've got at least two stories being brought together by an editor." (quote/paraphrase).

My Comments: Mr. Batten, a Literature Professor not a Biblical Scholar, has a right to his opinion which is purely what it is, an opinion. Unfortunately little or no rebuttal was given in defense of the biblical position afer his comments. It is important to understand that just because an academic makes a statement DOES NOT mean he is correct is his assessment. Some television viewers see the letters (Ph.D) behind the name of an interviewee and assume it's the one and only truth. Do your own research. Concerning the animals aboard the Ark...What Mr. Batton fails to realize is that both can be true of the same event. The seven by seven does not negate the two by two.


Sources: Mysteries of the Bible, Noah and the Flood on The Biography Channel.

Further Study: Noah's Ark: A Feasibility Study by John Woodmorappe, The Explorers of Ararat by B.J. Corbin, www.noahsarksearch.com.

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Helen Bond
(University of Edinburgh).
(Link)

Bond on Pilate
Concerning Pontius Pilate Bond said, "Pilate is tended to be seen as a rather weak character, in actual fact though Pilate as really quite different. What we know about him from outside sources shows a competent, strong Governor not at all the weak character of the gospels."

Comment: Pilate was not weak in the gospels. A weak leader who had enough power that others needed to ask his permission before legal proceedings? Pilate did give in to Jewish leaders outside of the gospels according to Josephus. (Antiq of the Jews 18.3.1) > "…but they threw themselves upon the ground and they laid their necks bare and they said they would take their deaths very willingly rather than the wisdom of their laws be transgressed. Up which Pilate (s) was deeply affected with their firm resolution to keep their laws in violable, and presently commanded the images to be carried back from Jerusalem to Caesarea."

"Pilate essentially has won the day. Not only has he got rid of Jesus, who was a troublemaker, and he wanted to get rid of him anyway (unbiblical), but he's also goaded the chief priests into this terrible declaration that they have no king but Caesar. All in all it was a good day's work for Pilate."

Comment: Pilate's good day's work? Executing an innocent man? Pilate DID have reservations about killing Jesus. If indeed Pilate wanted to get rid of Jesus it would only be to please the priests and keep the peace and not because he desired Jesus' death prior to the priests bringing Jesus to him! The gospels mean to portray Jesus as one whom Pilate wanted to set free. The presentation of Barabbas before the people was clearly an attempt to set Jesus free.


Bond on the Money Changers and Jesus
"…and it's extremely exciting because we have on the one hand the ancient sources (apparently the Bible is not an ancient source according to Bond) that show this wildly unpredictable dangerous city. On the other hand we have the gospels (What did I tell ya?) saying Jesus is there whipping up the crowd or doing his part to make them even more excited (Jesus was intentionally creating a disturbance? Hmm?) adding to the difficulties and tensions of the whole place."

Comment: Was Jesus' intention to bring stress to the city or whip it up? Jesus' turning over the money tables was his disgust at the abuse of his Father house not a premeditated act.

I will give Bond a few points on one biblical accuracy in that she believes Judas was a betrayer. YEAH!


Bond on the Gospels
Miss Bond believes that the gospels John and Luke were written in the 80's or 90's C.E. (A.D.)

My Comments: What do Conservative Scholars believe concerning the dating of the gospels? > They weren't interviewed. The Discovery Channel must have lost their phone numbers. A good ol' phone book or the internet might have been a good source to contact the Conservatives.



Sources: Mary:Mother of Jesus on Ancient Evidence > The Natl Geographic or Discovery Channels. The Real Disciples of Jesus on Ancient Evidence > The Natl Geographic or Discovery Channels. Pilate: The Man Who Killed Christ on The History Channel)

Further Study: Pontius Pilate and In the Fullness of Time by Paul Maier. Papers by Dr. Charles Aling of the Institute for Biblical Archaeology.

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James H. Charlesworth
(Princeton Theological Seminary)
(Link)


James H. Charlesworth believes that the flight into Egypt of Jesus' family was a matter of fiction.

My Comments: So is it not safe to say that Matthew was a writer of myth according to Charlesworth? What portions of Matthew can we trust?
Charlesworth did not say.

Labeled as a Biblical Historian, Charlesworth also denied the betrayal of Jesus by Judas and his arrest because everyone knew where to find Jesus.

My Comments: No evidence was presented in this program to support the belief that the events at Gethsemane were fiction. The Bible contradicts Charlesworth in that Judas knew but the Soldiers and Guards did not know where to find Jesus (John 18:2).

Charlesworth also believes that the handing over of Jesus was a way for the religious leaders to talk to Jesus and Jesus could present his ideas to them.

My Comments: If this is true why didn't they talk to Jesus publicly? He didn't do anything in secret. See John 18:20,21.

Source: Mary:Mother of Jesus on Ancient Evidence > The Natl Geographic or Discovery Channels.

Further Study: The New Testament is a good start. My paper on Jesus in Egypt.


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Eric Cline
(Historian and Archaeologist, George Washington University?)
(Link)

Eric Cline stated that, "The sites (Hazor and Ai) that are said to have been conquered by the Israelites the archaeology shows that most of them weren't even inhabited at that time and the sites that which we do have a destruction are not the ones that are mentioned in the biblical text."

My Comments: Regarding Hazor the site is still under excavation under Amnon Ben-Tor so it premature to make any firm conclusions about the site yea or nay. Regarding the potential sities of Ai. Both Bryant Wood and David Livingstone of The Associates for Biblical Research were digging at two potential sities (Maqatir and Nisya) until things became too dangerous due to the ongoing conflicts to conduct further work. It is premature to make any firm conclusions about the sites "lack" of credibility.

Eric Cline also made comments concerning Earthquakes. Cline's comments were interlaced with the Narrators in that supposedly the Canaanites entered Canaan by opportunism due to massive earthquake upheavals displacing people to other regions.

My Comments: What?

Source: Joshua and the Walls of Jericho on Ancient Evidence > The Natl Geographic or Discovery Channels.

Further Study: Bible and Spade Magazine articles about the search for Hazor, Ai and land occupations.



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Felicity Cobbing
(John Garstang Curator, Excavator).
(Link)

"Kathleen Kenyon was able to examine in minute detail the very, very complex phases of occupation…she was able to see an awful lot that Garstang
had simply missed."

My Comments: How can Kenyon see an "awful lot" when she dug into an impoverished area 1/3 the size of Garstangs excavations at Jericho (Brantley, page 61). Undoubtedly Garstangs work was not perfect but when you die wouldn't you want someone who is protecting and perhaps exhibiting your life's work to defend rather than defame your credibility? With Curators like Cobbings who needs enemies?


Source: Joshua and the Walls of Jericho on Ancient Evidence > The Natl Geographic or Discovery Channels.

Further Study: Bible and Spade Magazine articles about Jericho. Digging for Answers by Garry Brantley.

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- Daniel Smith-Christopher (Loyola University).
a) Historical Consultant for Noah and the Ark: Voyage to a New Beginning, Biography/A&E -1996
....My Comment: (Many errors/false beliefs presented in this program by Christopher. Christophers name, on a few occasions, changes
....sometimes"Christopher" is missing).

b)

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- John Dominic Crossan (The Jesus Seminar/DePaul University).

- Steven Davies

- William Dever (University of Arizona?).

- Allen Dundes (University of California/Berkeley).

- Robert Eisemann (Author).

- Steve Emmel (Copticologist).

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- Tamara Eskanazi (Hebrew Union College).

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- Carole Fontaine (Andover Newton Theological School).
a) God is an inexperienced deity that can't control or doesn't know how to control Adam and Eve (his children in the Garden with the Tree of Knowledge)
(Source: Adam and Eve (A&E's Biography).
.... My Comment:

b) Because Adam and Eve wore animal skins after the fall they were considered similar to animals by God.
(Source: Adam and Eve (A&E's Biography).
.... My Comment:

c) Tells unbiblical story about Noah > - Lamech meets with his father and then returns home. Methuselah inquires of his father Enoch. Methus finds Enoch in his celestial home and tells him about Noah (Is Noah cursed or good?). Enoch says that Noah has come to give us salvation from the coming great destruction.
(Source: Noah and the Ark: Voyage to a New Beginning, Biography/A&E -1996).
.... My Comment:

d) Jewish legend: People mocked Noah and he mocked back but he was upset.
(Source: Noah and the Ark: Voyage to a New Beginning, Biography/A&E -1996).
.... My Comment: No biblical/historical evidence for these beliefs.

e) The men and women slept separately as did the animals.
(Source: Noah and the Ark: Voyage to a New Beginning, Biography/A&E -1996).
.... My Comment: No biblical/historical evidence for these beliefs.

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- Paula Fredriksen (Boston University).

- Israel Finkelstein (Archaeologist).

- Marc Goodacre (University of Birmingham)

- Richard Horseley (Historian).

- Tal Ilan (Jewish Historian).

- Karen King (Biblical Historian).

- Ross Kraemer (Historian).

- Rabbi Harold Kushner (When Bad Things Happen to Good People).

- Allan Lloyd


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- Peter Machinist (Harvard Divinity School, Professor of Hebrew/Oriental Languages).
a) Discusses aspects of the Flood story > The Flood, the Noah figure, Noah gathers his family and goes onto an Ark. On the Ark for a period of time which the world is drowned and the Ark lands on a mountain. (Source: Mysteries of Noah's Flood. The Learning Channel, 2002).
....My Comment: He doesn't tell you the many differences between the Flood and the Gilgamesh Epic. (link)

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- Chris Maunder (University of Leeds).

- Gregory Mobley (Harvard Divinity School).

- Andrea Mollinary (Theologian).

- Father Jerome O'Connor.

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- Ian Pliner (Geologist)
a) Said the absence of evidence for a global flood evidence means there was no flood.
(Source: Noah's Ark: The True Story (BBC/The Discovery Channel).
....My Comment: The absence of evidence DOES NOT mean evidence will not be uncovered. My academic background is not in Creationism or the earth
... sciences. I hesitate to recommend Creationist links due to that fact.

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- Peter A. Pitzele
a) Tells unbiblical story about Noah > - Methuselah returns and takes care of Noah. Methuselah tells Noah all the stories (Creation, Adam, Eve etc;) he needs to take upon the Ark and preserve
(Source: Noah and the Ark: Voyage to a New Beginning, Biography/A&E -1996).
.... My Comment:

b) Ham, one of Noah's sons, is least interested in building Noah's Ark/doing as God commands.
(Source: Noah and the Ark: Voyage to a New Beginning, Biography/A&E -1996).
.... My Comment: No biblical/historical evidence for these beliefs.

c) Noah feels guilt as a survivor and not protesting Gods decision.
(Source: Noah and the Ark: Voyage to a New Beginning, Biography/A&E -1996).
.... My Comment: No biblical/historical evidence for these beliefs.

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- Peter Richardson (Historian).

- David Rohl (Questionable conduct and evidence).

- Nahum Sarna (Brandeis University).

- Thomas Schaub (Archaeologist).

- John Shelby Spong.

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- Aron Tendler (Yeshiva University).
a) Noah could pick out cedar trees that could grow up to 50 meters (he had a great understanding of nature).
(Source: Noah and the Ark: Voyage to a New Beginning, Biography/A&E -1996).
.... My Comment: No biblical/historical evidence for these beliefs.

b) Noah plants the cedar trees that will become his Ark. Noah planted the trees and cultivated the wood to fulfill the commandment of God.
(Source: Noah and the Ark: Voyage to a New Beginning, Biography/A&E -1996).
.... My Comment: No biblical/historical evidence for these beliefs.

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- Christine Thomas (Professor of Theology).

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- Dr. Steve Tinney (Asst. Curator, University of Pennsylvania Museum).
a) "…here for the first time (referring to the discovery of the Epic of Gilgamesh) was practically verbatim written confirmation that the stories contained in the bible had (occurred - my insert) outside of the Bible."(Source: Mysteries of Noah's Flood. The Learning Channel, 2002).
....My Comment: The Gilgamesh Epic, of whom Tinney is referring, is not even practically verbatim of Noah's Flood. There are 11-12 similarities, 2-3 lines of discrepancy and at least 25 differences between the Bible and The Epic of Gilgamesh. Verbatim? Was Moses a Plagiarist? The first record of proof of stories outside the Bible? Not true if you look at sites discovered which are biblically related such as Gerasa or Jerash (1805), Babylon (1811), Ashkelon (1815), Nimrud (1845), Sennacharib's Palace (1849) > Source: E.M. Blaiklock).

b) "the birds are sent out to look for land."
(Source: Mysteries of Noah's Flood. The Learning Channel, 2002).
.... My Comment: What he doesn't tell you is the different kinds of birds and the order they were sent out. This is an important difference between the stories.

c) Tinney believes that the story may have come into the Bible during the Babylonian Exile.
(Source: Mysteries of Noah's Flood. The Learning Channel, 2002).
.... My Comment: No proof is provided in the program to support this conclusion.


d)

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- Archaeologist Jonathan Tubb.

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- David Vanderhooft (Asst. Professor of Hebrew Scripture at Boston College).
a) "Folklore" comment: "The Noah story contains all the best elements in folklore. A threat to humanity, a sense of precariousness of life, the danger and possibility of interacting with the divine."
(Source: Mysteries of Noah's Flood. The Learning Channel, 2002).
.... My Comment: Vanderhooft degrades the Bible from an historical occurrence to something akin to Paul Bunyon or Johnny Appleseed.

b) "There is very little doubt that the Mesopotamian literary traditions that includes these flood narratives is much older than the Hebrew one."
(Source: Mysteries of Noah's Flood. The Learning Channel, 2002).
.... My Comment: Just because Genesis was "compiled" during the 1400's doesn't mean that it originated with Gilgamesh or that Moses was a plagiarist. The same argument can be reversed. No doubt that Noah had tablets passed down to him from previous generations that were eventually passed down to Moses. The Jews had a strong written and oral tradition. Remember that the Gilgamesh Epic (discovered about 1871) fragments were dated anywhere from 1750-612 B.C. (Randall Price, The Stones Cry Out) over 1,000 yrs of fragments to piece together. No doubt a copy of an earlier text (presumably 2600 B.C.) was written but it has not been recovered so what we see is the opposite of the programs assertion. We have a fragmented copy that dates before, during or after the compiling of Genesis around 1400 B.C. but they don't tell you that fact. The flood story is contained on tablet 11 of the 12 discovered. I personally believe the Flood occurred pre-Hassuna (5500 B.C.) and others believe it happened during the Ubaid period (4100-3750 B.C.). I personally believe that the Tower of Babel events occurred during this period (Ubaid) and not the famed Flood due to the introduction of mud brick construction to build structures including Ziggurats (Tower of Babel). This is just a theory which is all anyone else can academically conclude.

c) Canaanites and Hebrews knew about the stories (Noah's Flood) as "good stories" comment. Vanderhooft degrades the Bible to simple stories and/or fiction. Vanderhooft states that stories, including Noah's Flood, dealt with fundamental problems of the people.
(Source: Mysteries of Noah's Flood. The Learning Channel, 2002).
.... My Comment: Vanderhooft degrades the Bible to fundamental lesson about life not about historical events that may contain lessons.

d) "The weight of evidence within the stories themselves suggest that these are...tales told for reasons other than to tell you what took place at a given moment."
(Source: Mysteries of Noah's Flood. The Learning Channel, 2002).
.... My Comment: Vanderhooft denies the Bible as historical.

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- Peter Wells (pro-Garden Tomb regardless of lack of evidence).

- Larry Wills (Episcopal Divinity School).

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- Rabbi David Wolpe
a) Adam feels like a co-Creator/Partner with God since he names the animals. (Source: Adam and Eve (A&E's Biography).

b)

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- N.T. Wright.

- Walter Zanger (Author).

- Richard L. Zettler (University of Pennsylvania Museum/Associate Curator).

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- Bruce Zukerman (University of Southern California).
a) "If you read the stories...the passages in Gilgamesh and you didn't tell people where they come from you'd say this is from the Bible. It sounds almost the same."(Source: Mysteries of Noah's Flood. The Learning Channel, 2002).
....My Comment: My biggest issue is not that there are similarities or that the Gilgamesh records the biblical flood but that differences are not revealed (link). ...The belief that Moses probably stole this story to write parts of Genesis is an obvious conclusion that the makers of these and many other productions
...overtly contend.

b) "Here, we have the smoking gun. Here we have discovered with the Mesopotamian material a story which we now know is far, far older than the
Biblical version…"
(Source: Mysteries of Noah's Flood. The Learning Channel, 2002).
.... My Comment: See response to this issue under David Vanderhooft.

 

 

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